What glue do you use for furniture construction?

[mnrok]

Have been lurking in the dark reading this forum for a while and decided to sign up, so......

 

I have been using super glue gel which works fine on the painted pieces but on stained/dyed pieces if not super careful...the dreaded light telltale spots show up at the joints.

 I had read somewhere that you can use the "cheap syringes" with various size needle tips for pinpoint gluing.  They can be filled up with super glue and will keep as long as moisture (humidity, etc) does not get to the glue which activates the hardening process.  The article said that you can stick the needle into an old piece of rubber or even a piece of caulk.

What say the experts?

[Warren Barnard]

Welcome out of the shadows. Super glue has its place but depending on what material you're gluing other glues can be much better and can also solve the issue you mention. What materials and what are you making out of them to help us to advise you.

 

In respect to super glue in a syringe i have no comment but if the issue is getting the right amount on a spot, put some on a lunch zip lok bag (it doesn't stick) and use a pin or toothpick to pick up as you can control how much you use much easier.

[mnrok]

Hi Warren

Thanks for the ideas.  I use American cherry and popular and occasionally Sapele (a mahogany) most of which are quartersawn for a close grain and use a lot of dyes and sometime oil based stains with a top coat of lacquer from a airbrush.

I haven't used liquid super glue in a while.  As best I can recall it had a tendency to run along the fibers of the wood...that is why I have been using the gel super glue.  Or maybe I just need some more powerful glasses!!

[miraclechicken]

Just use wood glue (with needle applicator, pin or whatever you want and before the squeeze-out dries, use a sharp square corner of something like a cut credit card or a cheap chisel to scrape it off. Don't let it dry too long but not fresh and gooey either. I actually have a hypodermic for a tiny line of wood glue. I also have medicine bottles with the rubber tops and I put the needle in the bottle, airtight! I love it. For super glue I use 

Loctite 1363589 Ultra Gel Control Rubber Toughned Super Glue 4 Gram Bottle (This is the ebay description and picture) 

The reason is the applicator, you squeeze the sides and it instantly comes out, every time! Until it's gone, no problems like with all the other cyanoacrylates. Just a tiny drop, you have control over it. It also comes in a thin consistency. (red pkg.)

 

LInda

[ElgaKoster]

For furniture I use Aleene's aliphatic wood glue, I am wary of super glue for wood as I have heard some horror stories of superglued furniture falling apart after a few years.

[Warren Barnard]

Like Elga I use aliphatic wood glue or yellow carpenters glue for all my timber needs, I have found that it lasts and is extremely strong. I then use a cheap stiff small paint brush that I keep in water that I wipe most water from and then clean any excess glue. The best handiwork is to not need to wipe any off by putting the right amount on to start with. Squeeze bottles with very fine applicators or a toothpick work well.

 

I have also heard horror stories about super glue on wood, but I have pieces that I stuck almost 20 years ago still holding, but I still prefer wood glues for wood, but I do use Gorilla super glue that like the Loctite has a rubber added when gluing brass hinges to wood before pinning.

[miraclechicken]

I don't use super glue on furniture, I was just showing what I like when I need super glue, ease of use on this one.

You are not supposed to use any water to get rid of squeeze out on wood from wood glue, as it drives the glue down into the pores, causing the stain not to be able to penetrate. That is why now they are saying to scrape it off before it dries completely. I have had great success with this method.

[ElgaKoster]

Not just stain, the glue will prevent your finish from soaking into the wood too and those areas will look lighter in color. When you do have to deal with glue marks that needs removing, vinegar works great to loosen the glue and you can easily scrape it off, try not to get the vinegar into your joints except of course if you do need to remove a piece that dried wrong.

[Warren Barnard]

Just clarifying, I don't use water to remove the glue, I use a damp stiff brush that actually scrapes the glue off. The dampness stops the brush going hard between uses.

[abcd]

For furniture I use Aleene's aliphatic wood glue, I am wary of super glue for wood as I have heard some horror stories of superglued furniture falling apart after a few years.

 

The aliphatic resin wood glue is probably best, I woule never trust superglues or Duco cement for anything I want to hold together for a long time, these modern chemical glues like superglue are initially very stong, but brittle and they deteriorate and lose strength much the way plastics and fiberglass do.

Anyone who does laundry or garbage detail will know how those "Rubbermaid" type plastic laundry baskits and garbage cans, wastebaskets are nice and flexible when new, but within a very short time you find the stuff begins cracking and  falling apart. You'll see it with RV type fiberglass, plexiglass, acrylic etc., after a while the white fiberglass starts chalking and gets brittle.

 

I'd stick with white or yellow wood glue and leave the superglue to those who don't care if what they glue falls apart in a few years.

[mnrok]

This is why I joined this forum!  With the many years of experience and various talents all in one spot, I knew I would get great advice.

 I guess now it will be a new learning curve using aliphatic glues instead of a diet of just CA on miniatures.  Started yesterday....I see right away that I definitely need to slow down and "wait for the glue to set"!!!

Thank you so very much from cabinet maker to now miniature maker. 

[abcd]

Believe it or not, the white Elmer's glue is also very good, it's an aliphatic resin, I've used it many times over the last 35 years for repairing broken terracotta, stone and concrete sculptures.

I had a 600# hollow  concrete sculpture that was broken in half from being exposed to a fire, I glued it together with Elmer's glue and it held together just perfectly.

[mnrok]

On the vinegar, any particular kind (apple, etc) and I assume that you brush it on and it softens it up and then you wipe/scrape the squeeze out off the piece.

Also does it in any way have an impact on dyes (such as TransTint) that are mixed 50/50 with denatured alcohol and lacquer thinner and then top coated with 4 or 5 coats of lacquer?

[ElgaKoster]

I normally just use whatever vinegar I have in the house. It will dissolve your finish too, not sure about stain as I tend to use hardwoods that don't need staining and yes it does take a few minutes for the vinegar to soften the glue.

[Elizabeth Gazmuri]

I use only Elmer's white glue on wood. Easy to apply, strong bond. I have never had trouble with the glued joints weakening over time. I also like that it is water soluble, so if I do need to undo a bond I can apply a little water to the joint, usually with a small paint brush or syringe, wait a few minutes for the glue to soften and release the bond. Be sure it is the regular Elmer's white glue, not the Elmer's school white glue. 

[WeekendMiniaturist]

Hi mnrok, remember for a wood joint to adhere, it needs pressure of some kind. If I am gluing a chair together, I use soft jaw Irwin Quick-Grip clamps.  I have also used a combination of ceiling tile, rubberbands, and pins for chair legs, and backs, and have a box of Berna Clamps that were distributed by ZONA

 

As a cabinetmaker, you probably already know that wood doesn't stay together at joints without pressure, but while I know it in my head, when I'm following instructions, I'm not always critical about what I read, and just follow the instructions for the miniature project.

 

I also use yellow wood glue - currently using a bottle of Titebond Wood glue, but have also used Elmers wood glue too.  If I can find that article that the Kupjack's had in Nutshell news, I'll post the magazine number, they warned about using super glues for wood furniture construction.

 

If desperate, I have used woodglue and a tiny touch of superglue, but I have to be in state of despair.  I have learned from my first scratch built QA chair that the best thing for a good glue experience is to have proper joints.

 

In 2012 I made the Queen Anne Chair (pg 148) from the book, "Reproducing Period Furniture and Accessories in Miniature" and followed the instructions.  I couldn't get the back of the chair legs, seat rail and chair back to glue together, so I redid the chair with proper joints, and then I was able to glue it together.  Lesson learned, proper joints result in a chair that you can glue together successfully.

 

So what are you working on?  Tamra/Indiana

[mnrok]

Greetings everyone from downtown Gallman Mississippi.  Thank you each and everyone for your expert advice.

I usually just wing it on the plans. When I see something online I like and feel that someone out there would like to own it also, I print out the picture, use the printer to reduce it down to 1/12 scale according to the dimensions and then make a sketch.

I am seeing from your post that just like in full size cabinetry, a person can never have too many clamps and jigs!  After 50 years +/- in woodworking I can see I have to start all over when it comes to miniatures but with your patience and guidance, I hope to learn.

 

Although most are mortise and tenon construction, I wonder about the super glue holding now!!!

 

Hopefully attached are some rough pictures of some items as of late.  Should finish up a bowfront chest tomorrow. Nothing close to some of the fine work I see on this blog...hats off to all of you miniaturist!

Walter

[miraclechicken]

Beautiful pieces 

[abcd]

Very cool looking table!

[Bill Hudson]

I use a variety of glues although I do very little furniture I do similar type work with carriage bodies and seats.  I find in all my wood constructions that yellow carpenter's glue works best for me.  Before carpenter's glue was Elmer's. It was a love hate relation for me as it takes much too long for it to set. I have also used superglues, mostly thick kind. 5 or 15 minute epoxy works in many cases where I need to adhere wood to a different material.

 

For white and yellow glue (as has been stated earlier) white vinegar works well in removing them or un-gluing a joint with out breaking the wood.  White vinegar does not stain or smell as strong long as others.  

 

If by chance I get too much on a joint and it bleeds out I usually let it dry before removing it although I have had good luck with dabbing it with a piece of T shirt cloth on the tip of my finger.

 

To assure, as best as possible, over gluing I use various sharp objects, some shown below.  Ento pins and sewing pins with round heads work great for such as super glue or epoxy as well as the carpenter's glue to apply a tad bit to a joint.  Drill a hole in the end of a 3/32 dowel and epoxy the pin in the hole to make a handle. cut a short dowel and drill a deep hole in it to slipover the pin when you are strong it so you don't get stabbed.

 

I also save the screw off lids from milk and juice cartons to hold a puddle of glue when I am working. When dry usually the glue can be pulled out; if not just toss it. A chip of double stick tape helps hold the lid to the bench. Snap on soft plastic lids, such as come on yogurt, sour cream, cottage cheese tubs etc. work great for mixing epoxy. Epoxy doesn't stick firmly to them and once dry the unused can be pulled off.