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Bill Hudson

Tinware Tutorial

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WeekendMiniaturist

That is very nice, and I was wondering why I was seeing red surfaces.  That must help the die maker see.

 

It is fun to see a master at work!

 

I frequently think workshops on making jigs and fixtures would be great -  and this tutorial clearly fills that void.

 

Thank you for the photos!

 

Tamra

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MeezerMama

Bill, I just have to say this is the most amazing (series of) posts I could imagine.  Thank you so much for spending your time generously sharing all of your experience and expertise. 

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MeezerMama

When you anneal tin, do you use the "bar of soap turning black" approach, or do you just torch it?  I'm assuming you get fire scale.  With what do you pickle it after annealing?  Thanks!

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Bill Hudson

Thanks for the comments Chris.  I don't anneal the tin, I just form it as is.

 

 

The lunch kit, bucket, coffee can, cup and tray shelf, as it stands now ready for the handle.  I still have to design a latch assembly to hold the top can in place. I can not find a clear picture of such so I will just have to wing it.

 

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Bill Hudson

Normal pot ears will not work correctly on the lunch bucket as the coffee can hangs over the edge. To compensate for that I developed a bridge pot ear. This puts the ear out from the edge of the lunch kit side clearing the coffee can. 

 

Below are some of the methods I used to do this. The aluminum pieces form the channel used for the ears. The piece with the hole in it is for drilling and layout of the part on to the channel. Once the hole is located and the layout marks are made the ear is then cut out with a jeweler's saw and finished off with a fine file.

 

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Bill Hudson

Normal pot ears will not work correctly on the lunch bucket as the coffee can hangs over the edge. To compensate for that I developed a bridge pot ear. This puts the ear out from the edge of the lunch kit side clearing the coffee can. 

 

Below are some of the methods I used to do this. The aluminum pieces form the channel used for the ears. The piece with the hole in it is for drilling and layout of the part on to the channel. Once the hole is located and the layout marks are made the ear is then cut out with a jeweler's saw and finished off with a fine file. Guess how many of these ears are some where on my studio floor...

 

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Bill Hudson

Coal miner's lunch pail fresh off the work bench.  Still some minor adjustments and clean up to be done. Will only slightly age this one.

 

 

 

 

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miraclechicken

Oh how fun! It is wonderful. So cool to watch along with the progress---

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Bob McGinnis

Great Job Bill !   What wonderful tutorial.  Thanks

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Bill Hudson

What a pleasant surprise, this morning I have already received orders for three of the  lunch pails.  :D + 1 more = 4.

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Bill Hudson

I would like to show a little more on wiring.  First a light bead of solder is run around the top edge of the body.

 

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Here you can see how I fit the wire by pushing it close with the soldering iron tip.  I also use the pointed wooden dowel to help hold the wire in place while I sold. The wire has been coated (tinned) with solder and a fine bead of solder was put on the very edge of the top of the body. Every thing was fluxed and then the wire applied,bit by bit. First the wire was held in place with the too den dowel and solder was applied with the fine tip of the iron. It is then a matter of pressing the wire in place with the dowel and then melting the solder with the iron,working my way around.

 

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These four bodies were wired this evening.

 

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Bill Hudson

Solving a problem: some times a situation raised where you need to hole something t the same height and squareness.  This was the situation with soldering the cup rings on the top of the lunch pail coffee cans.  To solve the problem I mounted a piece of hardwood in my mill vise and leveled it. Then I sunk in a 5/16 mill to the correct depth to hold tearing with a slight bit showing of fit through the hole in the top piece. Once soldered together al pieces are alike.

 

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Assembled coffee cans and lunch pail with coffee cans on top.

 

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Bob McGinnis

Clever Idea with the Hardwood Soldering Fixture Bill.   Thanks for passing that on. 

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Peter Jensen

Look what showed up at my local auction last week. Lunch_Pail_1_zpsc4csgh8b.jpg

 

The lunch pail is smaller than I thought is was going to be from Bill's miniature and the old catalog photo he provided in an earlier post.  This one measured 8 9/16, by 5 3/4 by 5 5/8 inches to te top of the pail without the coffee container or cup.  The cup is 3 inches in diameter by 1 5/8 inches to the lip without the dome which adds another 3/4 inch.  And the cup has no handle and fits inside the cylinder on top of the coffee container.  Lunch_Pail_5_zpsndxohfbg.jpgIt unfortunately was missing the tray, but  the tray would have rested on 4 rivets that are at each corner of the pail at the height of the upper molded band. Lunch_Pail_7_zpstptbvn80.jpgThe molded bands are shallow and not used to support the tray like Bill's miniature.   Another interesting feature are the clips that hold the coffee container so that it can't fall out of the pail itself.  The clip atone of the bail attachment ears has a bent piece that slides over the rim of the coffee container. Lunch_Pail_8_zpsgrzmcpdo.jpg At the other ear is a spring clip.  Lunch_Pail_6_zpsmppnhvlg.jpg The coffee container itself has different shapes to its top and bottom halves.Lunch_Pail_9_zpsgift53q3.jpg

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Bill Hudson

Thanks Peter, that is very helpful I am finding measurements all in the same ballpark. My bucket is in the  same ballpark but about three inches taller; a double decker for a big eater.  I found this sketch of measurements I took from a logging museum exhibit (I stepped across the rope to get them) from about 30 years ago. I could not see inside to measure the actual height of the coffee container or see what else was inside. so it is not a new idea. I am sure I have a picture of it some where in my boxes of old pictures. It has been on my wish list for a very long time. When my son sent me the catalog picture It sparked the idea all over a gain. I am planning on a different version or two later on.

 

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WeekendMiniaturist

Peter, I am guessing that you used the tray to hold food on your lap?  Wonderful find!  I hope your fellow auction goers didn't make you pay a fortune for it... it is always fun to see the life sized object.

 

Bill H...crossing the roped line... you know that can get you kicked out of the museums - so I always recommend you take a friend with you to divert the attention of the people with the blazers.  My friend and I got a 'talking to' for measuring the length of a piece of furniture toe to heel... BAH HUMBUG... folks at the Met, just are not fun.

 

Tamra

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Bill Hudson

Tamra,  No lecture needed here. I have been taking measurements and getting photos at museums and other displays since the early 1960s. I never have taken any with out permission. I had permission to step across the rope, to take measurements and photos of the lunch pail, but was asked not to disturb the exhibit so I could only get outside measurements. I have had the honor to be trusted in the back rooms of many museums. I was taken back room to the tin area of Sturbridge Village for photos and measurements of various tin ware.   I had all the key rings and full access to the storage barns and and exhibits, even being allowed to climb in and on the carriages for photos and measurements at the Museums of Stoney Brook.  I 'v had access to the exhibit storage at the Oregon Historical Society Museum In Portland, Oregon and was allowed to transport two of Ivan Collins model carriages back to my shop for repairs. I am listed with them as a model conservator and appraiser. 

 

Distracting a docent in a museum is a NO NO! Sneaking measurements where not allowed and things like that make it hard for those with legitimate requests. Alway ask. If the answer is no then say "thank you" and move on. If you really want permission to measure, write ahead to the director and explain just what it is that you want to do. Giving a donation also helps. When I was first researching the popcorn wagons, I found two at the San Diego Zoo. I took pictures and when I got home I made rough drawings from them with x marks where I needed measurements. I sent a letter with the drawing and request for the measurements along with a $50 donation. A  week later the measurements were returned along with a thank you letter for the donation  along with other information about the wagons they felt might be helpful. That lead me to Cretors In Chicago who sent me a free reprint of their 1909 catalog and references to some one who restores the wagons. That lead to a good long standing friendship and an invite to come back to Kansas to their shop and photograph popcorn wagons in various stages of construction. 

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ElgaKoster

Yesterday I visited Groot Constantia wine estate in Cape Town, no photos allowed, my brother who has traced our family line back all the way to our first ancestors since the start of the Cape colony on both my dad and mom's side, told me that the one portrait in the museum is of one of our female ancestors on my mom's side that was born in 1693.

I got talking to one of the staff members and he gave me contact details for the people who have the authority to allow me to take photos and measurements. So next year I will pre-arrange my visit so that I can talk to them in time to get permission, I want to commission a local miniature painter to reproduce the portrait for me. I find museum and antique shop people always very friendly and helpful if you explain to them in advance why you want this info.

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Bill Hudson

I have been agonizing over how to hold the top on the pail. I finally designed the pot ears with a bridge to allow for some kind of clip to fit under it. Peter posted pictures of a pail with the clips that I had on mind. It confirms that I was on the right track. I was not able to find spring stock so I used steel shim stock to make the clips.  One clip is stationary and the second one is the latch.  It actually does not spring open to remove the lid. The lid just slips (snaps) in place and the top is lifted off with a finger nail. 

 

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Bob McGinnis

Great job Bill.   Beautiful work !   

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Peter Jensen
Bill Hudson

Thanks Peter,

 

Great information I only wish I had had it two months ago when I was struggling to find good pictures and measurements.

 I do not have your e-mail address.  Check the forum messenger for a message.  

 

I would like a good full view of the inside of the body and more detailing of the joint (seam).  Does the cup body have a seam?

 

Thank you for all the postings.

 

Bill

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miraclechicken

This is wonderful! Great that Peter comes along with the exact RL piece---

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Bill Hudson

After seeing the lunch pail the Peter posted here I decided to make the lunch pail more authentic. I changed from the cup with a handle to one that slips inside the tube and has a domed bottom.  I had to retool, making a forming die and punch to make the dome. At a later date I will produce the type of pain that used the cup with a handle on it.

 

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